Moshiach Q&A

Q: What is the source for
being able to say on
the Rebbe the phrase "Shlita"?

A: In the early years - 5710, 5711 (after the Histalkus of the Rebbe Rayatz) the Rebbe Shlita Melech HaMoshiach constantly used the title "Shlita" when referring to the Rebbe Rayatz. I do not have sources at hand, but if you want, I can look them up - they are printed in the Hisva’adoyos.

Even 42 years later, in 5752, If I am not mistaken, during the (taped) conversation with R. Mordechai Eliyahu, then the Chief Rabbi of Eretz Yisroel, again, the Rebbe Shlita MH"M mentioned "Der Rebbe Shlita" referring to the Rebbe Rayatz.

Another, important point: a Lubavitcher Rebbe is not ONLY a great tzaddik. He IS a Leader of the generation, a Prophet and Judge of the generation, and Moshiach of the generation (and Moshiach simply), as the Rebbe Shlita MH"M himself said in the later Sichos (late 5740's, also 5750-52)

Q: Can you bring sources
for the Rebbe saying this about
the Frierdiker Rebbe?

A: Toras Menachem not edited by the Rebbe 10 Shevat 5711 p.17 end of the Sicha

Also now the Rebbe is found here BeGashmiyus:

  • Shabbos Parshas Tetzaveh Shushan Purim p.18

  • "Those who say that "Histalkus" means the Rebbe is away from us are WILD PEOPLE - they don't know what they're saying"

  • "And the main thing is that the Rebbe Shlita will bring us to greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu..."

  • Simchas Torah 5711 not edited by the Rebbe p. 52 the very end of the Sicha.

  • 5751 19 Kislev not edited by the Rebbe p. 113

  • Rebbe Rashab N"E asked Rebbe Rayatz whether the Alter Rebbe's cell can hold 3 people (including Baal Shem Tov, Maggid) when they came to him BeGashmiyus.

Again, Rebbe Rayatz Shlita:

  • 5751 Vayakhel - Shkolim, Mevorchim Ador Sheini p. 274 the Very end of the Sicha

  • Rebbe Rayatz never said Nishmosei Eiden about his father, Rebbe Rashab.

  • Not edited by the Rebbe, Purim 5751 p. 326 towards and of the Sicha p. 327 the very end of the Sicha: "Der Rebbe Shlita".

Up to Chassidim where the Rebbe can be:

A Chassid mentioned to the Rebbe Shlita MH"M about the Rebbe Rayatz "der Rebbe Nishmosei Eiden"

The Rebbe started to cry and said "Why are you sending the Rebbe to Sibir' - Solovki - to Gan Eiden!? WE NEED HIM HERE!!"

  • Toras Menachem 5710 Shabbos Parshas Shlach Mevorchim Tammuz p. 106 ois 5

Not to say "Nishmosei Eiden” on Rebbe Rayatz and NOT to send him away

  • Yakov Ovinu Loh Meis

  • Likuttei Sichos v. 35 p. 223-228

Yakov Ovinu B’guf Gashmi:

  • Likkutei Sichos v. 26 p. 7 footnote 66

R' Yehodah Hanossi B'guf Gashmi:

  • Ksubos 103:1 Bottom of the page - pirush of Giloyon Hashas

  • Reb Elozor B'Reb Shimon

  • Bovo Basro 84:2 Middle of the page

Difference between 10 Shevat and 3 Tammuz:

  • The Avoda was completed and new Tekufa started - Dor HaShvi Sefer Maamorim Bosi LeGani 5711 p. 5 second paragraph, and p. 10 top and bottom

The Nesius of Current Rebbe will continue into Geulah uninterrupted:

  • Sefer Hasichos 5752 Yisro, 20-22 Shevat, p. 349 beginning of the page

  • p. 366 Mishpotim, 27 Shevat

More in what the Rebbe did not edit

  • 5748 Motzei Shabbos Parshas Teruma, 2 Ador in the Rebbe's home - beginning 3 pages

  • Sichos Kodesh 10 Shevat 5720 Daf 12 middle

  • Sefer Hasichos 5750 14 Tammuz p. 560

  • Sefer Hasichos 5751 Acharei Kedoshim 13 Iyar p. 518

Chayim Nitzchim of the current Nossi Hador:

  • Hisva’adoyos 5749 v.4 p.148 Vaeschanan

  • Sefer Hasichos 5752 Asoro BeTeiveis - 14 Teiveis p.240 bottom

Nossi of our Dor is everlasting and is not subject to Geniza:

  • Sefer Hasichos 5751 p.794 Shoftim

Q: Even after reading everything
I'm still unsure of what to think.
Sometimes I feel that the Rebbe
is speaking in ruchnius terms?

A: Yes, there are direct quotes where the Rebbe mentions "alive in a physical body" about the Rebbe Rayatz.

Also look at the source in Gemara for R' Yehuda HaNossi coming back every Friday night and making kiddush - b'gashmiyus, and being Motzi his family with his kiddush, as a living person who is chayev b'mitzveis.

There is another quote from the Rebbe (I didn't see it in the book, but I might have missed it) where the Rebbe (Pesach after 10 Shevat 5710) asked why aren't people trying to go to the Rebbe Rayatz' room for Seder as they used to? Since the Rebbe Rayatz is there and with him, Eliyahu Hanovi, not as a nitzutz that comes to every Seder, but in a physical body as he can be in only one place. The Rebbe Shlita continued and said that it's a wonder then how can we farbreng without the Rebbe Rayatz if he is in his room... but it is the Rebbe's will and he can hear us through the intercom. (Implying, not as a Neshomo present in the air, but as physical person listening through the intercom).

See full conversation

My email correspondence with someone who visited this site (MarCheshvon - Kislev 5770):

11/5/09:

Hi Velvel,

Can you please tell me what the source is for being able to say on the Rebbe the phrase "Shlita"? If the Rebbe ever said this on the Previous Rebbe, can you please show me the source of where he says this?

And what does it even mean to say this about a great Tzaddik who has had an Histalkus (meaning he was separated from his fleshly body)?

Thank you,

Shmuel

11/5/09:

Dear Shmuel,

Thank you for the question.

I will try to answer to the best of my ability and limited time:

In the early years - 5710, 5711 (after the Histalkus of the Rebbe Rayatz) the Rebbe Shlita Melech HaMoshiach constantly used the title "Shlita" when referring to the Rebbe Rayatz. I do not have sources at hand, but if you want, I can look them up - they are printed in the Hisva’adoyos.

Even 42 years later, in 5752, If I am not mistaken, during the (taped) conversation with R. Mordechai Eliyahu, then the Chief Rabbi of Eretz Yisroel, again, the Rebbe Shlita MH"M mentioned "Der Rebbe Shlita" referring to the Rebbe Rayatz.

Another, important point: a Lubavitcher Rebbe is not ONLY a great tzaddik. He IS a Leader of the generation, a Prophet and Judge of the generation, and Moshiach of the generation (and Moshiach simply), as the Rebbe Shlita MH"M himself said in the later Sichos (late 5740's, also 5750-52)

Again, this is a quick answer, as I am busy and short on time. If you need detailed sources, please let me know, I will try to compile a list for you.

11/5/09:

Thank you.

Shmuel

11/5/09:

My pleasure

:-)

Velvel

Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu Verabeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolom Vaed!

11/5/09:

Velvel, thank you very much! I would greatly appreciate sources in Hisva’adoyos or elsewhere for the Rebbe saying this about the FR - whenever you can get to it.

Thanks for writing back so quickly,

Shmuel

11/5/09:

Shmuel,

Give me some time to put a list together for you - may take a few days due to limited time.

Thanks again!

-Velvel

11/5/09:

I really appreciate it! :)

11/6/09:

Shmuel,

Do not ask me to do this again, please!

:-)

Toras Menachem not edited by the Rebbe 10 Shevat 5711 p.17 end of the Sicha:

Also now the Rebbe is found here BeGashmiyus

Shabbos Parshas Tetzaveh Shushan Purim p.18

"Those who say that "Histalkus" means the Rebbe is away from us are WILD PEOPLE - they don't know what they're saying

"And the main thing is that the Rebbe Shlita will bring us to greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu..."

Simchas Torah 5711 not edited by the Rebbe p. 52 the very end of the Sicha.

5751 19 Kislev not edited by the Rebbe p. 113

Rebbe Rashab N"E asked Rebbe Rayatz whether the Alter Rebbe's cell can hold 3 people (including Baal Shem Tov, Maggid) when they came to him BeGashmiyus.

Again, Rebbe Rayatz Shlita:

5751 Vayakhel - Shkolim, Mevorchim Ador Sheini p. 274 the Very end of the Sicha

Rebbe Rayatz never said Nishmosei Eiden about his father, Rebbe Rashab.

Not edited by the Rebbe, Purim 5751 p. 326 towards and of the Sicha p. 327 the very end of the Sicha: "Der Rebbe Shlita".

Up to Chassidim where the Rebbe can be:

A Chassid mentioned to the Rebbe Shlita MH"M about the Rebbe Rayatz "der Rebbe Nishmosei Eiden"

The Rebbe started to cry and said "Why are you sending the Rebbe to Sibir' - Solovki - to Gan Eiden!? WE NEED HIM HERE!!"

Toras Menachem 5710 Shabbos Parshas Shlach Mevorchim Tammuz p. 106 ois 5

Not to say "Nishmosei Eiden” on Rebbe Rayatz and NOT to send him away

Yakov Ovinu Loh Meis

Likuttei Sichos v. 35 p. 223-228

Yakov Ovinu B’guf Gashmi:

Likkutei Sichos v. 26 p. 7 footnote 66

R' Yehodah Hanossi B'guf Gashmi:

Ksubos 103:1 Bottom of the page - pirush of Giloyon Hashas

Reb Elozor B'Reb Shimon

Bovo Basro 84:2 Middle of the page

Difference between 10 Shevat and 3 Tammuz:

The Avoda was completed and new Tekufa started - Dor HaShvi Sefer Maamorim Bosi LeGani 5711 p. 5 second paragraph, and p. 10 top and bottom

The Nesius of Current Rebbe will continue into Geulah uninterrupted:

Sefer Hasichos 5752 Yisro, 20-22 Shevat, p. 349 beginning of the page

p. 366 Mishpotim, 27 Shevat

More in what the Rebbe did not edit - 5748 Motzei Shabbos Parshas Teruma, 2 Ador in the Rebbe's home - beginning 3 pages

Sichos Kodesh 10 Shevat 5720 Daf 12 middle

Sefer Hasichos 5750 14 Tammuz p. 560

Sefer Hasichos 5751 Acharei Kedoshim 13 Iyar p. 518

Chayim Nitzchim of the Rebbe Shlita MH"M

Chayim Nitzchim of the current Nossi Hador:

Hisva’adoyos 5749 v.4 p.148 Vaeschanan

Sefer Hasichos 5752 Asoro BeTeiveis - 14 Teiveis p.240 bottom

Nossi of our Dor is everlasting and is not subject to Geniza:

Sefer Hasichos 5751 p.794 Shoftim

Hope this helps!

Velvel

Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu Verabeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed!

11/6/09:

Velvel, thank you! Peleh Ployim! Thank you so much!

Question: when I visit the Ohel, it seems to be a contradiction to all of these sources? How do I begin to understand that it is not a contradiction? In the Ohel is a holy guf of flesh and blood, no? So what is the “Shlita” referring to? Don’t we say Shlita on the health of someone’s fleshly body? What else would we be saying “Shlita” on? I am trying to understand.

Shmuel

11/6/09:

Shmuel,

This is a matter of the outlook. Flesh eyes versus the Torah. Who is right?

I think the best thing is to learn the Rebbe's Sichos, at least the ones I so painstakingly found for you and typed up. It took me at least two hours.

So, do the justice to all my hard work and do not make me think that you were only asking for the sake of asking. Look up at least the pages I pointed out (all indicated).

How many days will it take you to do it? Let me know.

We will talk after you look up the sources.

Hatzlocho Rabo!

Yechi HaMelech! (Sicha of 2 Nissan 5748)

Velvel

11/6/09:

I very much would love to learn the Sichos inside. I will have to find a chavrusa to do this with. I think I know someone to ask. I was not just asking you to ask. So your time was well spent even if it was just for yourself. But the fact is that it was also for me. I will let you know how my learning goes IY”H.

Thanks again so much for your hard work. It is great that you were able to do this.

Have a great Shabbos,

Shmuel

11/6/09:

Have a good Shabbos!

:-)

Velvel

Moshiach Now!

Yechi HaMelech!

11/10/09:

Hi Velvel,

An update on my learning....well, I struck out on my first attempt at getting a local Shliach to learn these things with me. I sent him an email 4 days ago already and have not heard back. Perhaps he thinks I'm a nut or he doesn't want to touch my questions with a 10-foot pole.

Shmuel

11/10/09:

Can you learn on your own?

If not, I can try to get short English translations for you.

Alternatively, I can suggest some booklets that were compiled by various rabbis that contain the original quotes (some in English) and you can pick them up at stores in Crown Heights.

Alternatively, I can send you by regular mail some of the printed things I already have, but that will cost you (shipping) :-)

Hatzlocho!

Yechi HaMelech HaMoshiach!

11/10/09:

Thanks, Velvel, for your ideas. I can learn a bit on my own. But English is easier. Ideally, I like to use both the original and the English for when I get stuck. I can get to Crown Heights. What booklets would you suggest?

11/11/09:

I have an idea. I can just go to a Chabad House and bring your sources and try to learn them on my own as best I can. Thanks again for all the work you put into collecting the sources.

Kol tuv.

11/12/09:

Shmuel,

If you have Skype, we can set up short learning sessions Monday through Thursday

Yechi HaMelech!

- Velvel

P.S. I will try to find sites for you so you can print the materials.

11/12/09:

Thanks Velvel. I do not have internet at home, believe it or not. I can only access the internet at work, as I am doing now. I work in a cubicle with no privacy, so Skype is not shayach at work. But I appreciate greatly your offer! If there are sites so I can print the materials - or put them on a cd and print them at home (I have a computer at home, just no internet) that would be wonderful. Thanks again for your extremely touching offer.

:)

11/12/09:

The best website containing 100's of Seforim in PDF version is otzar770.com [I am not sure if it works (on and off)].

Try these: sichoskodesh.com individual volumes, also includes an image file with all 50 volumes to be burned onto a disc. lahak.org or\and chabadlibrary.org/books/ and also 770live.com has a lot of video, audio, and printed resources that you will appreciate, such as daily Rambam and Chitas, both in English (audio) Besides Chabad.org (which I repeatedly find biased, from personal experiences and from Shluchim's stories) there is another, VERY informative Chabad website chabadworld.net which is much more straightforward about topics of Moshiach and does not withhold information from the public. And also this one moshiach.ru/english that Sholom Lougov who runs the website (a good friend of mine) can answer many questions. He can provide you with more sources. (Only ask nicely - he has a short fuse:-) )

Try also Chabad.info for current Chabad news, also less biased as other Chabad news sites (that unfortunately do a lot of selecting and editing before putting out Chabad news as I and others personally witnessed).

sichosinenglish.org speaks for itself, has many other English stuff, very useful

Another, very useful website igrot.com/english and also this last one www.chassidus.org

But the best thing,

If you really want the ORIGINAL sources all laid out, on many other topics including the Rebbe Shlita being Moshiach, proclaiming Yechi HaMelech, etc. I can try to buy for you (if they are still on sale) 2 books containing quotes on the pages of the Sichos in original, Gemoro pages, etc., compiled by Rabbi Shloma Majesky {Likkutrei Mekoros].

This may cost $15-20 per book and another $10 shipping, about $50 total.

I used them to compile a list of sources for you. I think it is a must for everyone to have to see the original pages and what the Rebbe Shlita MH"M actually said.

Let me know and I will stop by the store today.

Yechi HaMelech!

-Velvel

11/12/09:

Thank you for this great chesed! I cannot believe you really did all of this for me. I would love to buy the books. Do you have PayPal or Google checkout so I can send the money to you?

Shmuel

11/13/09:

I have the first volume of Likkutei Mekoros (the second volume I think is out of print).

Surprisingly, it was only $7 so add another $8 for shipping and you can send via PayPal.

Let me know which address to send it to.

Yechi HaMelech!

- Velvel

11/14/09:

Gut voch Velvel,

Would it be possible to email me an excerpt from the Sicha where the Rebbe gives over the nevuah and says that he is saying this as a nevuah and therefore it is certain to happen?

I was also thinking about this topic over Shabbos and I have two questions:

1. If Moshiach is maalah min hateva, then why was there even the appearance of an Histalkus?

2. The nevuah of immediate Geulah - how do we begin to understand the long delay since the time this nevuah was first given; and how the delay doesn't Chas Veshalom disprove the nevuah?

11/16/09:

Shmuel,

I found vol. 2 yesterday evening.

Sending you both, will try to send it out today.

Let me know when you receive them.

A gut Chodesh Geulah and a Gut Yor.

Yechi HaMelech!

- Velvel

11/16/09:

A gut voch and a gut yor :-)

- I am pretty sure the Likkutei Mekoros has that quote. Either vol. 1 or 2.

- As per above, there are quotes from sources that Moshiach will be revealed and then concealed. Why? (as you ask in Question 2)

Possible answer can be found in what the Mittleler Rebbe wrote (I think the source is also in the books I am sending) about the father who is testing the child. So there is a smart child and there is a not so smart one. The smart one knows that the father is only hiding, but he is near, and the child doesn't cry - he realizes that the father wants to test him and to see if he is following father's ways and teachings. Then the father will come out of hiding and his connection and love for the child will be doubled. On the other hand, the not so smart child will cry and cry, maybe look a bit for the father and then eventually despair and abandon any hope. This shows that he did not have a real love or connection in the first place.

The Rebbe Shlita MH”M said on 28th of Nissan 5751 that I've done everything I can - referring to us wanting Moshiach and doing right things. Well, we kind of blew it, so 27 Adar and 3 Tammuz happened, where the Rebbe concealed himself and now it is up to us, which son we are going to be - as the Mitteler Rebbe said.

Hope that helps...

Cheers!

Yechi HaMelech!

Velvel

P.S. You've mentioned in a past email that the Shliach would not talk about these topics - I believe that he does know the Sichos and the quotes, only he may be uncomfortable discussing these things with other people. After all the arguments in Lubavitch on this topic stem from one thing: should we talk about the Rebbe as Shlita and Moshiach or not? As for knowledge itself, it is widely known by many what the Rebbe has said, and I am sure that most Lubavitchers believe in this in their hearts.

P.P.S. Here's a video of the Rebbe Shlita MH"M meeting with Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu on the 6th of MarCheshvon 5752 (10/14/1991) when the Rebbe MH"M used Shlita referring to the Rebbe Rayatz moshiach.ru/vid/moshiach/5033.html

11/17/09:

Velvel,

Thanks again for this chesed you have done for me. I am grateful and really touched.

I will let you know when they arrive.

Gut Chodesh

11/19/09:

Hi Velvel,

I want to thank you again for picking up these books for me.

There was a good amount of Yiddish in these books. Maybe a third or a half perhaps was in Yiddish, so I had to skip these parts.

I stayed up very late last night finishing the books. Even after reading everything I am still unsure of what to think.

Sometimes I feel that the Rebbe is speaking in ruchnius terms, and sometimes it seems he means b'gashmius also.

I really cannot make up my mind about what I should believe. For me it hinges on how we are supposed to understand his statement "last dor of Galus and first of Geulah" which he said many times. Also, it seems from the book that he only started saying this in the later years. It might have been implied in the very first Maamar but he didn't actually say it then.

It is very sad that the Geulah Shleimah hasn't happened yet. From the Rebbe's talks it seemed like it was going to happen many years ago already.

In terms of being alive, did the Rebbe ever say "zecher tzadik livracha" on the Friedeker Rebbe? I read in the book that the Rebbe says that it is not correct to say this about his father-in-law. But even so, were there times he did say it?

A good gebenched yor.

Shmuel

11/20/09:

Shmuel,

"Even after reading everything I am still unsure of what to think. Sometimes I feel that the Rebbe is speaking in ruchnius terms, and sometimes it seems he means b'gashmius also."

Yes, there are direct quotes where the Rebbe mentions "alive in a physical body" about the Rebbe Rayatz.

"I really can't make up my mind about what I should believe." As the Rebbe says in the Sicha about Yakov Avinu - Lo Meis - physically. Rashi on that Gemara says "The Egyptians thought he was dead" implying that he wasn't.

Also look at the source in Gemara for R' Yehuda HaNossi coming back every Friday night and making kiddush - b'gashmiyus, and being Motzi his family with his kiddush, as a living person who is chayev b'mitzveis.

There is another quote from the Rebbe (I didn't see it in the book, but I might have missed it) where the Rebbe (Pesach after 10 Shevat 5710) asked why aren't people trying to go to the Rebbe Rayatz' room for Seder as they used to? Since the Rebbe Rayatz is there and with him, Eliyahu Hanovi, not as a nitzutz that comes to every Seder, but in a physical body as he can be in only one place. The Rebbe Shlita continued and said that it's a wonder then how can we farbreng without the Rebbe Rayatz if he is in his room... but it is the Rebbe's will and he can hear us through the intercom. (Implying, not as a Neshomo present in the air, but as physical person listening through the intercom).

"For me it hinges on how we are supposed to understand his statement "last dor or galus and first of Geulah" which he said many times. Also, it seems from the book that he only started saying this in the later years. It might have been implied in the very first maamar but he didn't actually say it then."

I heard that this means that the same people who lived in Golus will live in the Geulah. Not as some interpret it, that the last generation of Golus will have to die out, and the new generation of Geulah will be born into it.

"It's very sad that the complete Geulah hasn't happened yet. From the Rebbe's talks it seemed like it was going to happen many years ago already." No question about it. The more reasons to scream Ad Mosai!

"In terms of being in a physical body, did the Rebbe ever say "zecher tzadik livracha" on the Friedeker Rebbe? I read in the book that the Rebbe says that it is not correct to say this about his father-in-law. But even so, were there times he did say it?" Never. Even 40 years later, during the interview with R' Mordechai Eliyahu in 5752, "the Rebbe Shlita" was the phrase referring to the Frierdike Rebbe. In the vol.1 of the book there are a few quotes where the Rebbe Shlita cries after someone mentions the Rebbe Rayatz as "nishmosei eiden" and cries more and says, "why are you giving addresses to the Rebbe? why are you sending the Rebbe away? We need him here!" Also shows us that Chassidim have the power to "keep the Rebbe here" or "send him away".

I heard one explanation on R' Yehuda HaNossi, why he was able to come back in a body and other Tzaddikim weren't (although they were also alive) - is because his talmidim refused to let him go, and considered him alive.

"A good gebenched yor."

Gam Atem

:-)

Yechi HaMelech!

-Velvel

11/20/09:

Thanks Velvel. I will try to go through the books again. There is a quote in one of the books where the Rebbe says that the Rebbe Rayatz needs feet and hands in this world and that's what the Rebbe's job is now after the Rayatz's histalkus - to be the feet and hands of the Rebbe Rayatz. But I plan to read everything again.

Kol tuv,

11/21/09:

A guta voch Velvel,

It is a shame I do not know Yiddish. Many of the pages in these books are in Yiddish.

I went through them again and this is what I think:

The Rebbe does say that the Previous Rebbe is still with us begashmius but he doesn't say (at least I didn't see it) that he is still with us in a guf gashmi mamash. To be with us begashmius could mean that he is still having an influence on the gashmius of olam hazeh. I do not think the Rebbe says that he is still with us in a guf gashmi mammash, because the Rebbe says that the Previous Rebbe after his histalkus is no longer limited by the bounds of his body (hagbalos haguf). The Rebbe also says that the Previous Rebbe needs "feet and hands" and that the Rebbe is now his feet and hands after his histalkus.

In terms of being Moshiach, I would say that the Rebbe is saying that he is the final redeemer. Most of the quotes only imply that the Rebbe is the Moshiach of the Generation - the potential Moshiach if the generation is zoche. But there are other quotes which imply that he is the final redeemer, especially the one about the Yalkut Shimoni that the Moshiach is already announcing that the time of the redemption has arrived. and that Moshiach is already revealed. I see that the Rebbe said several times that ours is the last generation of Galus and the first of Geulah - but I am still not sure if he meant this as a nevuah or as a Bracha/Tefilla. I am not sure. He does not say that this is a nevuah. He only said that "l'alter l'geula" is a nevuah.

Have a great week.

11/23/09:

Hi Velvel,

The very end of Bossi Legani 5710 says:

May we be privileged to see and meet with the Rebbe here is this world, in a physical body, in this earthy domain -- and he will redeem us.

Isn't this another proof that the Rebbe didn't think that the Previous Rebbe already was alive in a physical body after histalkus?

Kol tuv,

11/23/09:

A gute voch

:-)

"Isn't this another proof that the Rebbe didn't think that the Previous Rebbe already was alive in a physical body after histalkus?"

I cannot say what the Rebbe Shlita thinks... I only look at the Sichos and other sources. All I know that the Rebbe addresses the Rebbe Rayatz as Shlita and that he is here B'Gashmiyus as per sources: 10 Shevat 5711 p.17 end of Sicha; Simchas Torah 5711 not edited by the Rebbe p. 52 the very end of the Sicha 5751 Vayakheil - Shkolim, Mevorchim Ador Sheini p. 274 the Very end of the Sicha not edited by the Rebbe again: Purim 5751 p. 326 towards and of the Sicha p. 327 the very end of the Sicha.

That the tzadikkim of highest caliber are b'guf gashmi:

5751 19 Kislev not edited by the Rebbe p. 113; Likutei Sicheis v.35 p.223-228; Likkutei Sicheis v.26 p.7 footnote 66; Ksubeis 103:1 Bottom of the page - pirush of Gilyein Hashas; Bovo Basro 84:2 Middle of the page; And that the Rebbe Shlita MH"M himself, as the leader of our generation, is different than even the Rebbe Rayatz and thus there are fundamental differences that 3 Tammuz has even compared to 10 Shevat. In other words, even the fact that the Rebbe Rayatz is Shlita and here b'gashmiyus, it is still different from 3 Tammuz. Then the Avoda was completed and new era started - Dor HaShvii Sefer Maamorim Bosi LeGani 5711 p.5 second paragraph, and p. 10 top and bottom The Nesius of Current Rebbe will continue into Geulah uninterrupted, as per sources: Sefer Hasichos 5752 Yisro, 20-22 Shevat, p .349 beginning of the page p. 366 Mishpotim, 27 Shevat More in what the Rebbe did not edit 5748 Motzoei Shabbos Parshas Teruma, 2 Ador in the Rebbe's home - beginning 3 pages Sichos Kodesh 10 Shevat 5720 daf 12 middle Sefer Hasichos 5750 14 Tammuz p. 560 Seifer Hasichos 5751 Acharei Kdoshim 13 Iyor p. 518.

The current Nossi Hador will have Chayim Nitzchim:

Sefer Hisva’adoyos 5749 v.4 p.148 Vaeschanon Sefer Hasichos 5752 Asoro BeTeiveis - 14 Teiveis p. 240 at the bottom.

Nossi of our Dor is everlasting and is not subject to Geniza:

Sefer Hasichos 5751 p. 794 Shoftim.

Kol Tuv

Yechi HaMelech!

- Velvel

11/23/09:

A gute voch! Velvel, thank you very much. All of this is helpful. I really

appreciate your doing this for me. I will look at these sources.

Have a good week,

12/3/09:

Hi Velvel,

Just wanted to touch base. I have a question. I am not sure that a person can be designated Moshiach Vadai until after he builds the Beis HaMikdosh and gathers all the Jews to Eretz Yisrael. So I do not understand how it is possible to say that the Rebbe taught that he is/will be Moshiach Vadai if he has not yet completed the entire mission. Don’t we have to reserve Moshiach Vadai until after the mission has been completed and before that time it is Chezkas sh'hu Moshiach? And that built into the halacha there is a possibility that the status of Chezkas can be undone?

I am not sure if I am stating my question clearly enough for you to understand what I am really asking. In other words, according to the halacha are we ever allowed to say someone is Vadai before he has done everything?

Kol tuv,

12/4/09:

Moshiach NOW!

I'm curious - where have you heard about the Rebbe as Moshiach Vadai?

- Velvel

12/4/09:

Hi Velvel,

I have not seen it too much. But I seem to recall reading something by Arnie Gotfryd where he says this. Also, Moshe Yess. Other than this, I have not seen it. But this is what I gather people mean when they say Melech HaMoshiach.

12/4/09

Shmuel,

"I haven't seen it too much. But I seem to recall reading something by Arnie Gotfryd where he says this. Also, Moshe Yess." It may be a better idea to ask them directly. Arnie Gotfryd is at www.arniegotfryd.com and for Moshe Yess you can search on Tzach list

" ... But this is what I gather people mean when they say Melech HaMoshiach.":

1. In the Likkutei Mkeireis there are dozens of references to the Rebbe (Rebbe Rayatz) being Moshiach.

2. In 5753 when Kehos was preparing one of the Seforim about Geulah (don't remember which one - Besuras Hageulo, maybe...) they asked whether they can print "Admur Shlita Melech HaMoshiach" and the Rebbe gave permission.

3. Chava Cohen brought a tambourine to the Rebbe Shlita MH"M, which had the hachrozo "Yechi Adeineinu.. Melech HaMoshiach..." written on it and the Rebbe accepted it.

4. Don't forget that for two years - from 27th of Odor, and even before, the Rebbe was strongly supporting the public singing of Yechi Adeineinu with the words Melech HaMoshiach from his balcony.

I guess that is what everyone keeps in mind when the words Melech HaMoshiach are said.

How does it fit to the Rambam?

The Rebbe once brought a story at a farbrengen - about some of the students of ARI Hakodeish: On Friday, late afternoon he offered to them to spend Shabbos in Yerushalaim, they wanted to requested the permission of their wives and thus blew the chance. So the Rebbe Shlita MH"M said, at a farbrengen, when the Rebbe tells you something, don't run to check it against the Shulchon Oruch - that is NOT the way to bring Moshiach! The Rebbe knows Shulchon Oruch also.

In this case, we have clear Maasei Rav (points 1-4 above, and many more), so there's no need to check it against Rambam.

Hope that helps

:-)

Have A Gut Shabbos!

Yechi HaMelech!

- Velvel

12/4/09:

Thanks Velvel.

Good points. My only question mark is if the Rebbe was indicating by all of these things that he did that he was the final Moshiach, or only the potential Moshiach (and by doing all of these things he felt it might bring it into reality). After all he ever accept being coronated as Moshiach (from what I have learned so far).

12/7/09:

Gut Yom Tov,

L'Shono Tovo B'Limud HaChassidus ub'Darkei HaChassidus Tikoseiv V'Seichoseim!

" ... My only question mark is if the Rebbe was indicating by all of these things that he did that he was the final Moshiach, or only the potential Moshiach (and by doing all of these things he felt it might bring it into reality)." One of the quotes (I don't recall which one) in the Likkutei Mekoros has the Rebbe's statement that the Chabad Rebbe is the Leader of the Generation AND is the Moshiach of the Generation and is the Moshiach K'Pshuto.

When the Rebbe says that he is Moshiach K'Pshuto (simply Moshiach) - do we need to look it up in the Rambam? (Remember the story about Arizal and his talmidim and what the Rebbe teaches us from this) "After all he ever accept being coronated as Moshiach (from what I have learned so far)".

Let us do everything we can that it would happen very soon!

:-)

Yechi ADMU"R Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed!

- Velvel

12/7/09:

Hi Velvel,

Leshono tova to you to and amen to your brocha.

It is true that the Rebbe says (in one of the books you got for me) that he is Moshiach k'peshuto. However, in that same quote he also says that *Moshe Rebbeinu* is moshiach k'peshuto. I have the page it is on at home. I can send it to you when I get home if you want. What I learn from this is that the Rebbe's "k'peshuto" is not what *we* normally think of as "k'peshuto". (I remember the story about the Arizal and his talmidim.)

Kol tuv,

12/8/09:

Hi Velvel,

It's on page 17 of Likkut Mekoros volume two, near the top. The Rebbe says that Moshe Rebbeinu is also Moshiach Tzidkeinu - i.e. Moshiach k'peshuto.

12/8/09:

"It's on page 17 of Likkut Mekoros volume two, near the top. The Rebbe says that Moshe Rebbeinu is also Moshiach Tzidkeinu - i.e. Moshiach k'peshuto" Of course! We know that the Rebbe of each generation is "Ispashtuso D'Meishe Bchol Doro V'Doro" i.e. each leader of each generation IS, in fact, Meishe Rabbeinu.

:-)

Long Live the Rebbe King Moshiach!

- Velvel

12/8/09:

Velvel,

Before you told me that the Rebbe said he was Moshiach k'peshuto. I agreed he said this. But we see that the Rebbe also said that Moshe Rebbeinu is Moshiach k'peshuto. I left out one thing the Rebbe said. He adds that this means the Moshiach sh'b'dor. So it comes out, that when the Rebbe says he is Moshiach k'peshuto, he means that he is the Moshe sh'b'dor. And that was my question. How do you know that everything the Rebbe said and did indicated that he is the final Moshiach instead of just the Moshiach sh'b'dor (i.e. the potential Moshiach if the dor merits it)?

Kol tuv,

12/8/09:

Shmuel,

"...But we see that the Rebbe also said that Moshe Rebbeinu is Moshiach k'peshuto. I left out one thing the Rebbe said. He adds that this means the Moshiach sh'b'dor. So it comes out, that when the Rebbe says he is Moshiach k'peshuto, he means that he is the Moshe sh'b'dor. And that was my question. How do you know that everything the Rebbe said and did indicated that he is the final Moshiach instead of just the Moshiach sh'b'dor (i.e. the potential Moshiach if the dor merits it)?" Simple. In many places in the Likkutei Mekoros. and by the way, learn the beginning of this week's Sicha from 5752 (Sefer Hasichos 5752-1991 parshas Vayeisheiv) where the Rebbe says we are the LAST generation of Golus and the FIRST generation of Geulah.

In this light, the leader of THIS generation, who said the above about THIS generation, in the Moshiach of THIS generation, which IS the FIRST generation of Geulah, and HE is the one who is taking us out of Golus and making it the generation of the Geulah.

:-)

Da Zdravstvuyet Lubavuchski Rebbe Korol Moshiach! (Russian)

Velvel

12/8/09:

Thanks Velvel. Let me look into this topic some more.

What does that mean in Russian?

Kol tuv,

12/9/09:

Long Live the Lubavitcher Rebbe King Messiah!

- Velvel